Secrets of the Depths

Loki knows that I am so godlike that if I have to bother myself to ASK (heaven forbid!) for an explanation, I will have to smite his blackened soul.

From my uneducated (I am not the god of knowledge for god's sake) point of view, a save/load system seems unecessary and stressful on the system. The maps are like 4 gigs already without anything thrown on there, toss the specs for the crap you built earlier that day and thats a mega file size (Mega was approved by the SAM last week as a technical term meaning greater than incredible). As well as all the cumbersome crap you have to go through to actually do it.

Oh, and is this system already in the maps? If so then that raises a few more questions.

P.S. My computer is broken right now, one of the cables for my charger broke, I'm house sitting for somebody right now and using their system. So expect some upcoming inactivity from yours truly. <3 to my nonexistant peeps.

Using the sloc and spawn commands, more is possible than with save games...

Imagine if two people both created cities, and saved them each in separate games. They woult not be able to use them together without rebuilding them.

With the current save system, as long as locations do not clash, all players can place their own structures, and not be forced to switch maps every time they have their characters go into a new kingdom, city, or even house...

Sloc and spawn commands vs a save code
They are both lame.

Sloc and spawn commands help you quickly build things in public games, or in games with a large friend base which is on at different times and may not even fit in one game.

Save games are for a specific group of friends. If a new friend tries to come in, then how does that save game help you at all? New players cannot enter save games...

Do you really expect your statements to hold up without any supporting points?

Sloc and spawn commands help you quickly build things in public games, or in games with a large friend base which is on at different times and may not even fit in one game.

Quickly? If I need a third-party program to use a system more efficiently then fuck that.
A system is supposed to be good on its own, Sloc and Spawn system fails to do that.
Save games have been more reliable than anything created in and for WC3.
It's one thing to make a system to help players, but it's totally different when mapmakers ignore one of the best universal tools in Wc3.

you know a better system of making things FAST and efficiently lies in my suggested system of spawning units.

go read about it here

http://sotdrp.freeforums.org/new-spawni ... .html#2106

The save system would only be for buildings and or heroes.

For doodads and such, that wouldnt work because if it saved whole map, and more then 3 ppl saved The doodads would mess up and stack or if someone left and loaded and the people had deleted their base or somthing and put doodads to say on it, the city and the doodads would both load . And if everyone saved they could load in another game but doodads would load/overload over the map. So it could only be for buildings and heroes. so i t would have to be a script and not a save/load.

I am not writing my best and i didnt perfect this reply !

Okay think about it this way before you say anything more.

If we were to have a working save/load code feature the first scenario is that we might get like 4 people that have picked the same spot to build in before saving in a previous game. Thus there will be a conflict of wtf to do after the four of them all load their code anyway.

Second scenario, the save/load feature allows people to continuously add on to what they have produced in previous games. So they could very easily spend a good hour each day for the next 10 days building shit EVERY where in the map, and then once he loads it, along with everyone else's shit the game might as well explode. My point being that if there were to be a save/load code system that allows you to infinitely make shit and add it on to what you have, eventually the game won't sustain it anymore.

Third scenario, this feature wouldn't be smart, why? Cuz then any retarded noob that knows how to crash can, host a private game, and spawn 01 illidan, type level 10, type 'permanentinvisibility, and then save it. Then load it in a different SotDRP and crash every time, despite the level caps, cuz if you do a save/load code, those level/stat caps won't matter shit.

Lastly, there would have to be many many tests to make damn sure it is flawless. For example wtf would happen if you were to soul gem a hero, and save? Will that captured hero be remembered? And what of units and heroes being transported in another hero or unit? And another thing, the save and load codes should only work in the same map which they were saved in, cuz what if 1.04 mtns has something that 1.03 mtns doesn't and you try to load it in there, either nothing will happen or something will happen right? I'm gunna go with nothing. Nothing occurring is better than the game crashing but this just proves the uselessness of the save/load system in public games.

Let's face it, the only reason to even have a save/load code is so that you and a few friends can load it up and still have new friends come play in it. I will admit this, to only have the HOST be able to save/load wouldn't be a bad idea, cuz then they could easily load ONE thing that could probably be the layout of a theme, and this will begin a very implicit chain reaction: Get RPing going sooner and faster, get more done, get players interested, make SotDRP community grow, raise popularity of the maps that Narks produces and Narks himself, bitch-slaps the rest of the old SotDRP team, and then it could possibly also be considered an ORPG style map-once every blue moon.

We all know the wc3 save/load game system doesn't allow new players, cuz firstly it wouldn't make any sense to, and secondly I'm sure they thought it through and knew it was a good decision to make it that way.

This will conclude my post about why we don't need a fucking save/load coded system.

Dr.Panda wrote:Okay think about it this way before you say anything more.

If we were to have a working save/load code feature the first scenario is that we might get like 4 people that have picked the same spot to build in before saving in a previous game. Thus there will be a conflict of wtf to do after the four of them all load their code anyway.

In another topic, I have already suggested a "relative sloc" command that would allow people to move their structures around.

Dr.Panda wrote:Second scenario, the save/load feature allows people to continuously add on to what they have produced in previous games. So they could very easily spend a good hour each day for the next 10 days building shit EVERY where in the map, and then once he loads it, along with everyone else's shit the game might as well explode. My point being that if there were to be a save/load code system that allows you to infinitely make shit and add it on to what you have, eventually the game won't sustain it anymore.

This is the same scenario as the first one, except with more units. The game would crash anyway with a lot of units, I don't see how the save/load system is helping/hurting anything here...

Dr.Panda wrote:Third scenario, this feature wouldn't be smart, why? Cuz then any retarded noob that knows how to crash can, host a private game, and spawn 01 illidan, type level 10, type 'permanentinvisibility, and then save it. Then load it in a different SotDRP and crash every time, despite the level caps, cuz if you do a save/load code, those level/stat caps won't matter shit.

And the makers of sotdrp will eventually fix all crash bugs?

Dr.Panda wrote:Lastly, there would have to be many many tests to make damn sure it is flawless. For example wtf would happen if you were to soul gem a hero, and save? Will that captured hero be remembered? And what of units and heroes being transported in another hero or unit? And another thing, the save and load codes should only work in the same map which they were saved in, cuz what if 1.04 mtns has something that 1.03 mtns doesn't and you try to load it in there, either nothing will happen or something will happen right? I'm gunna go with nothing. Nothing occurring is better than the game crashing but this just proves the uselessness of the save/load system in public games.

I don't think you understand the save load system. What it does is: you type in the exact commands that you used in game, but instead of building units with the builders from the shops, you use the "sloc" command to move your spawner to a location, and "spawn" to create the unit. Then you can use "sl" to select it and apply things like "size" and " 'fa" to it. This scenario is obviously impossible, as it is impossible to "cast soulgem" using just commands.

Dr.Panda wrote:Let's face it, the only reason to even have a save/load code is so that you and a few friends can load it up and still have new friends come play in it. I will admit this, to only have the HOST be able to save/load wouldn't be a bad idea, cuz then they could easily load ONE thing that could probably be the layout of a theme, and this will begin a very implicit chain reaction: Get RPing going sooner and faster, get more done, get players interested, make SotDRP community grow, raise popularity of the maps that Narks produces and Narks himself, bitch-slaps the rest of the old SotDRP team, and then it could possibly also be considered an ORPG style map-once every blue moon.

If only the host can load things, then new players cannot bring in their things without sending them to the host, which doesn't work unless they can communicate with the host through something other than wc3...

Dr.Panda wrote:We all know the wc3 save/load game system doesn't allow new players, cuz firstly it wouldn't make any sense to, and secondly I'm sure they thought it through and knew it was a good decision to make it that way.
This will conclude my post about why we don't need a fucking save/load coded system.

It's not hurting you just by being there, is it? It's not taking up much space in the map, and it's certainly not holding you back from playing. Removing it, however, would ruin the work of all the people who bothered to go through the time-consuming process of "saving" their buildings/towns for future games.

In another topic, I have already suggested a "relative sloc" command that would allow people to move their structures around.

I read that, thanks for redirecting me to it. But you do know that simple applied math can move it "slightly" from one loc to another loc. Btw sloc with sl(means "select last"? wild guess) is fucking retarded unless it selects absolutely every single last unit made.

This is the same scenario as the first one, except with more units. The game would crash anyway with a lot of units, I don't see how the save/load system is helping/hurting anything here...

You don't see how it's hurting? If everyone can save/load, then wtf is stopping a group of builders from constructing a layout that covers entire map? Then they all load it, not only does this refute your idea of sloc, it also shows us why save/load CAN be abusive in games.

And the makers of sotdrp will eventually fix all crash bugs?

Wow you are just like putting all the responsibility on the "makers" huh? There will always be ways to crash, I can crash by spamming spawn 12 goldmine over banlist, and guess what I feel no lag from that, cuz I'm not actually looking at wc3 process this command.

I don't think you understand the save load system. What it does is: you type in the exact commands that you used in game, but instead of building units with the builders from the shops, you use the "sloc" command to move your spawner to a location, and "spawn" to create the unit. Then you can use "sl" to select it and apply things like "size" and " 'fa" to it. This scenario is obviously impossible, as it is impossible to "cast soulgem" using just commands.

I don't understand save/load system? Well DO good to explain the UNIVERSAL meaning! Cuz I'll bet there are opposing viewpoints on what save/load really means. In typical games it means to postpone a hero's progression for another time, in another game, that is probably the most basic, general meaning of a save/load system. And doing THAT much work shouldn't be called saving, cuz well, the way you explain it has me believe that you literally don't save shit. Why go through sloc and spawn cmds if you saved something? And furthermore you even gotta enter the other cmds like "size" and " 'fa"? Are you sure you even understand your own stance dude? What the fuck are you trying to say we are "saving" by using your suggested "sloc/spawn/sl system"?

If only the host can load things, then new players cannot bring in their things without sending them to the host, which doesn't work unless they can communicate with the host through something other than wc3...

Well why would they need to bring anything? Its not very hard to make a hero, maybe for you, but I clearly wouldn't know that for myself really. And my point of view was basically saying if the host were to have themes prebuilt and a save/load code were available, then he/she could just load the "theme" layout, and then the game can get started once heroes are made. THAT was what I was trying to say. I think you mistook me for implying that it'd be a GREAT fucking idea to have every player bring something to the game via save/load.

It's not hurting you just by being there, is it? It's not taking up much space in the map, and it's certainly not holding you back from playing. Removing it, however, would ruin the work of all the people who bothered to go through the time-consuming process of "saving" their buildings/towns for future games.

This is why having only host save/load shit would work better, if you must leave and you don't want the work forgotten, then type give red me, and have him/her save it for you, to load back up another time, and truly ownership of structures means jack shit for the Roleplay.
I'll have to disagree on the space issue, I believe that it will take a LOT of space to get it working.

Dr.Panda wrote:I read that, thanks for redirecting me to it. But you do know that simple applied math can move it "slightly" from one loc to another loc. Btw sloc with sl(means "select last"? wild guess) is fucking retarded unless it selects absolutely every single last unit made.

It selects all of the units created through the last "spawn" command.

Dr.Panda wrote:You don't see how it's hurting? If everyone can save/load, then wtf is stopping a group of builders from constructing a layout that covers entire map? Then they all load it, not only does this refute your idea of sloc, it also shows us why save/load CAN be abusive in games.

And all it takes is a couple "remove <player>" commands to get rid of these structures, and the host can then sort out how to deal with the problem.

Dr.Panda wrote:Wow you are just like putting all the responsibility on the "makers" huh? There will always be ways to crash, I can crash by spamming spawn 12 goldmine over banlist, and guess what I feel no lag from that, cuz I'm not actually looking at wc3 process this command.

You can also assume a basic level of sanity in players....
Also, that method of crashing will work regardless of whether the current save/load system is implemented or not, so I don't see how it is relevant to the current topic...

Dr.Panda wrote:I don't understand save/load system? Well DO good to explain the UNIVERSAL meaning! Cuz I'll bet there are opposing viewpoints on what save/load really means. In typical games it means to postpone a hero's progression for another time, in another game, that is probably the most basic, general meaning of a save/load system. And doing THAT much work shouldn't be called saving, cuz well, the way you explain it has me believe that you literally don't save shit. Why go through sloc and spawn cmds if you saved something? And furthermore you even gotta enter the other cmds like "size" and " 'fa"? Are you sure you even understand your own stance dude? What the fuck are you trying to say we are "saving" by using your suggested "sloc/spawn/sl system"?

I am defining "save/load system" as a system that allows you to prepare a given created group of units for quick creation at a later time. My original meaning was that you did not understand how the system implemented by Krynvelhat, and in case you did, it was meant as a brief refresher on its method of operation.

Dr.Panda wrote:Well why would they need to bring anything? Its not very hard to make a hero, maybe for you, but I clearly wouldn't know that for myself really. And my point of view was basically saying if the host were to have themes prebuilt and a save/load code were available, then he/she could just load the "theme" layout, and then the game can get started once heroes are made. THAT was what I was trying to say. I think you mistook me for implying that it'd be a GREAT fucking idea to have every player bring something to the game via save/load.

Yes it would... two players can build cities in separate single player games at times convenient for them, then reconstruct them in a matter of minutes in a battle.net to have an epic battle, or something.

Dr.Panda wrote:This is why having only host save/load shit would work better, if you must leave and you don't want the work forgotten, then type give red me, and have him/her save it for you, to load back up another time, and truly ownership of structures means jack shit for the Roleplay.

And how do you propose to have the host "save it for you"? If you can think of a better way to save things than using sloc and spawn, nobody is stopping you from writing a better system. I'm sure Krynvelhat and Narks would be happy to use it, if all it needed was one command to save your whole town for later use.

Dr.Panda wrote: I'll have to disagree on the space issue, I believe that it will take a LOT of space to get it working.

I fail to see how some JASS commands will take "a LOT of space" in the map file compared to a huge list of models.

Also... pandabear. You kinda forgot that they wanted to make sure the host had to activate the use of this system. Or actually just the -load. That way if you're in a public game, noobs can't crash shit. Only if the host is a retard, but then he deserves to have his game crashed anywayz.

Save/load system is out.

What if u join random rp and u anna save, but host is dickhead or possibly he just doesnt want to?
There goes ur stuff u wanna save.

I dont even understand how Sloc could work.

u setlocation
What if u used a custom building you'd have to find code or custom unit, that'd waste time unless u figure it first time
That would be endless list of commands to write down in banlist to type in beginning of game.

i just dont see it working,

I think narks Automatd build script could work great

I don't see any reason to put something "out" just because you think it won't work for most of the time. What do you lose by implementing it?

Well I'm done trying to talk to Datalore I mean really:

You can also assume a basic level of sanity in players....
Also, that method of crashing will work regardless of whether the current save/load system is implemented or not, so I don't see how it is relevant to the current topic...

Really dude? I stated in the post before the one that was quoted from that if we let players use save/load then any noob can save a level 10 illidan and crash every game. THAT is how its relevant, and I cannot believe you didn't even make that connection..

Anyway yea, host should need to 'allow' or 'turn on' the save/load feature.

Your damn sloc and sl isn't saving shit idiot. Explain how you are saving anything at all.

I'm here talking about a coded save/load feature, and you're there talking about a save system that doesn't literally work in theory and in practice.